nickwh8te
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Had fun testing out @hibachi_xyz last night. Can confirm that the UX is as seamless as any CEX plus the spreads are tight (0.04% on DOGE)
Just doing my part to fill blobs with CLOB txs
Just doing my part to fill blobs with CLOB txs
Look who's in the top 10 of the Celestia daily stats leaderboard
@EclipseFND
@hibachi_xyz
@LightLinkChain
@MoltenL3
@GravityChain
@townsxyz
@derivexyz
@kamigotchiworld
@WINRProtocol
@plumenetwork
A healthy mix of general purpose chains, social, gaming, RWAs and ofc DeFi (including our first CLOB on blobs at #2)
@EclipseFND
@hibachi_xyz
@LightLinkChain
@MoltenL3
@GravityChain
@townsxyz
@derivexyz
@kamigotchiworld
@WINRProtocol
@plumenetwork
A healthy mix of general purpose chains, social, gaming, RWAs and ofc DeFi (including our first CLOB on blobs at #2)
Whoever invented the Metam*sk sign in pop up reminder should be fired
Pretty interesting reply thread btw @sam_battenally and @aeyakovenko about latency vs validator distro/MCP.
Here's the thinking:
If you want to minimize your round trip time (RTT) you need to geographically colocate your node with a proposer.
In a single sequencer or geo-concentrated validator setup, this is trivial and extremely fast since you just colocate with the sequencer/validators and you're done.
In a geo-distributed single leader setup your average RTT would be the average stake-weighted RTT between all validators, which would end up being pretty slow no matter where you are.
But with MCP you could get consistently low RTTs by colocating in an area where there is a concentration of validators & stakeweight such that you have a high likelihood of there being at least one proposer there per slot.
This seems to get you the best of both worlds: geographically decentralized validators, good CR, low latency.
However I'm still confused how conflicting txs confirmed by two different proposers in MCP get resolved. It seems that the guarantee that you get from a proposer in MCP is fundamentally different from what a single sequencer or single leader gives you.
Here's the thinking:
If you want to minimize your round trip time (RTT) you need to geographically colocate your node with a proposer.
In a single sequencer or geo-concentrated validator setup, this is trivial and extremely fast since you just colocate with the sequencer/validators and you're done.
In a geo-distributed single leader setup your average RTT would be the average stake-weighted RTT between all validators, which would end up being pretty slow no matter where you are.
But with MCP you could get consistently low RTTs by colocating in an area where there is a concentration of validators & stakeweight such that you have a high likelihood of there being at least one proposer there per slot.
This seems to get you the best of both worlds: geographically decentralized validators, good CR, low latency.
However I'm still confused how conflicting txs confirmed by two different proposers in MCP get resolved. It seems that the guarantee that you get from a proposer in MCP is fundamentally different from what a single sequencer or single leader gives you.
Thanks to CLOBs people are finally realizing that we need 100MB/s+ of DA, but this is just the beginning..
This same thing will happen to every app that finds pmf. Usage will explode and apps will absolutely EAT blockspace
CLOBs on blobs
Everything on blobs
This same thing will happen to every app that finds pmf. Usage will explode and apps will absolutely EAT blockspace
CLOBs on blobs
Everything on blobs
Why Celestia will win as DA for CLOBs:
→ enough DA throughput to support CLOBs and consistently ships scaling upgrades on schedule (21.33MB/s on mamo-1 testnet)
→ the most secure with ~$1B slashable stake, data availability sampling support, and blobstream for bridging (there will be a lot of funds at risk)
→ the most reliable/battle tested alt-DA with the most users in prod (any downtime would be devastating for a CLOB)
→ the best brand, best DevEx, most integrations, and strongest ecosystem support out there
... and the competition is not even close
CLOBs are coming for Celestia's blobs 🦣
→ enough DA throughput to support CLOBs and consistently ships scaling upgrades on schedule (21.33MB/s on mamo-1 testnet)
→ the most secure with ~$1B slashable stake, data availability sampling support, and blobstream for bridging (there will be a lot of funds at risk)
→ the most reliable/battle tested alt-DA with the most users in prod (any downtime would be devastating for a CLOB)
→ the best brand, best DevEx, most integrations, and strongest ecosystem support out there
... and the competition is not even close
CLOBs are coming for Celestia's blobs 🦣
No one wants more rollups, they want more apps.
But it just so happens that rollups are the most powerful way to build apps.
But it just so happens that rollups are the most powerful way to build apps.
Crypto needs its ChatGPT moment, where overnight it will go from esoteric niche nerdy tech to mainstream consumer application that people immediately grasp the value of.
It feels like we're close. Someone just needs to crack the puzzle.
It feels like we're close. Someone just needs to crack the puzzle.
Shower thought: the CLOB wars will be fought and won on Celestia
CLOBs are crypto's first killer app and Hyperliquid's success is just the start. There's a stampede of projects building competing CLOBs.
Several top CLOB teams are already building on Celestia ( @hibachi_xyz, @nitro_dex on @rise_chain, [redacted]) bc the best way to build a CLOB is as a rollup:
→ extremely low latency ( @bulletxyz_ doing 3.95ms)
→ custom sequencing (cancel order prioritization, etc)
→ high throughput (CLOBs require a LOT of DA, I've heard estimates Hyperliquid does ~20MB/s ??!)
It's not a stretch to imagine 30+MB/s of high quality DA demand as these chains go live over the next couple years, which would solve the revenue question for Celestia with high-volume, high-value demand.
Some back of the napkin math... 30MB/s at 100 bytes/tx and $0.0001 per tx == $1B in annual revenue
TL;DR - CLOBs on blobs
CLOBs are crypto's first killer app and Hyperliquid's success is just the start. There's a stampede of projects building competing CLOBs.
Several top CLOB teams are already building on Celestia ( @hibachi_xyz, @nitro_dex on @rise_chain, [redacted]) bc the best way to build a CLOB is as a rollup:
→ extremely low latency ( @bulletxyz_ doing 3.95ms)
→ custom sequencing (cancel order prioritization, etc)
→ high throughput (CLOBs require a LOT of DA, I've heard estimates Hyperliquid does ~20MB/s ??!)
It's not a stretch to imagine 30+MB/s of high quality DA demand as these chains go live over the next couple years, which would solve the revenue question for Celestia with high-volume, high-value demand.
Some back of the napkin math... 30MB/s at 100 bytes/tx and $0.0001 per tx == $1B in annual revenue
TL;DR - CLOBs on blobs
Thanks to zkTLS crypto no longer has to build out entirely new apps and user bases from scratch
We can simply layer on crypto features and incentives to apps with existing user bases
It solves one of the hardest problems for crypto adoption
We can simply layer on crypto features and incentives to apps with existing user bases
It solves one of the hardest problems for crypto adoption
It's too early to value assets by REV in an immature, high-growth industry like crypto.
Don't get me wrong, revenue is very much the ultimate goal for many crypto protocols, but just bc a protocol has high REV today doesn't mean it will have high REV in a few years.
Similarly just bc a protocol has low REV today doesn't mean it will have low REV in a few years.
Just look at Ethereum and Solana.
A complete flip in REV dominance in the last 2 years. Do you think that can't happen again?
I bet it will.
So how do you invest in early stage technology where things are constantly changing?
There happens to be an investing discipline dedicated to this, it's called venture investing.
In venture investing today's revenue isn't what matters, it's about projecting where revenue will be in 5-10 years based on the quality of the team, technical trends, and growth metrics. More art than science.
In 5-10 years when the crypto industry has matured and consolidated then perhaps REV and value investing frameworks will make sense. But for now, I think they will probably only lead people astray.
Don't get me wrong, revenue is very much the ultimate goal for many crypto protocols, but just bc a protocol has high REV today doesn't mean it will have high REV in a few years.
Similarly just bc a protocol has low REV today doesn't mean it will have low REV in a few years.
Just look at Ethereum and Solana.
A complete flip in REV dominance in the last 2 years. Do you think that can't happen again?
I bet it will.
So how do you invest in early stage technology where things are constantly changing?
There happens to be an investing discipline dedicated to this, it's called venture investing.
In venture investing today's revenue isn't what matters, it's about projecting where revenue will be in 5-10 years based on the quality of the team, technical trends, and growth metrics. More art than science.
In 5-10 years when the crypto industry has matured and consolidated then perhaps REV and value investing frameworks will make sense. But for now, I think they will probably only lead people astray.
Specialization + scale + sovereignty = Celestia
People who think that successful rollups will eventually launch their own L1s have never had the painful experience of maintaining a consensus network and it shows
genuine question:
why do people use Hyperliquid instead of a CEX like Binance? does it actually have anything to do with it being decentralized?
why do people use Hyperliquid instead of a CEX like Binance? does it actually have anything to do with it being decentralized?
chat, what is the best onramp solution in crypto right now?
specifically looking for something that can take a new user with no crypto and get them stablecoins (plus gas token if relevant) while minimizing number of clicks, time to receive funds, and fees
specifically looking for something that can take a new user with no crypto and get them stablecoins (plus gas token if relevant) while minimizing number of clicks, time to receive funds, and fees
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