Host: Sam, Rosa
Guest: Anatoly Yakovenko, Founder of Solana
Source: Crypto Isn’t for Everyone (And That’s a Good Thing) with Anatoly Yakovenko
Podcast Date: July 12, 2025
Organization & Compilation: Lenaxin, ChainCatcher
ChainCatcher Editor's Summary:
This article is compiled from a deep dialogue between the More or Less podcast and Solana founder Anatoly Yakovenko, where he analyzes the industry cycle of 'punks, hoodies, and suits,' points out that AI is just a product while crypto is a movement, and reveals how stablecoins quietly promote the globalization of the USD. He also explains Solana's mission to challenge the monopoly of app stores and suggests that the future of the crypto industry should not focus on mass adoption but rather on serving high-net-worth niche groups.
Interesting points:
AI is just a product, while crypto is a movement
If Bitcoin becomes a hedging tool on par with gold, the crypto market can be considered victorious.
Develop dedicated devices and app stores for crypto users, charging low fees to carve out new paths amid the giants' monopoly.
When stablecoins are backed by real assets like government bonds, it will disrupt the traditional financial system.
The current market perception of stablecoins is both overly focused and seriously underestimating their potential.
Real market demand is still highly concentrated on USD stablecoins.
When individuals are long-term immersed in such information cocoons, cognitive dissonance with reality becomes inevitable.
When idealists withdraw, their voices disappear.
Opening Story: Anatoly's Growth and the Birth of Solana
Rosa: Could you briefly introduce the background and the founding process of Solana?
Anatoly: I was born in the Soviet Union. My parents immigrated immediately after the Berlin Wall fell, to be exact, right after the Soviet Union collapsed. I grew up in Chicago, arriving in the U.S. at the age of 11 during Michael Jordan's peak with the Chicago Bulls, fully immersed in that wave. I spent the entire 90s there and later attended Illinois State University to study computer science.
At that time, we were in the wave of the mobile revolution, working at Qualcomm from 2004 to 2015, participating in all mobile research and development projects you can think of, and encountering all mobile operating systems of that time.
The opportunity to establish Solana came to me one day after drinking two cups of coffee and a bottle of beer at Soleil Café in San Francisco, when I suddenly had a flash of inspiration at four in the morning. Six months later, I pitched this idea to Sam Russo at Slow bar.
The Evolutionary Trajectory of the Crypto World: Punks, Hoodies, and Suits
Rosa: We are currently at a critical juncture: regulations are significantly relaxed, and innovative projects are emerging rapidly. In your view, what is the current market situation? What are the essential differences compared to a year ago?
Anatoly: I've observed many commonalities between the crypto movement and other technological waves, such as the open-source movement. Objectively, AI is closer to a specific product rather than a social movement. This development model always follows a fixed trajectory: initially pioneered by punk rebellious geeks, then commercialized by hoodie entrepreneurs, and finally fully taken over by suit-wearing capital.
We are currently in a delicate transformation period, where hoodie teams of entrepreneurs are becoming increasingly mature, while suit-wearing capital has just begun to explore how to incorporate this industry, trying to transform it into a form indistinguishable from traditional industries.
Rosa: Speaking of capital entering the market, hedge funds and traditional asset management companies are now issuing various crypto products. Are you suggesting that they will directly incorporate underlying blockchain technology?
Anatoly: Stablecoins are a ready-made success story. This programmable currency is simply perfect, especially when backed by real assets like government bonds, which directly disrupts the traditional financial system built on fax technology since World War II.
Rosa: What is the actual value of stablecoins to the U.S. mainland?
Anatoly: When the world craves USD, if Tether or Circle becomes the standard bearer of programmable USD, the U.S. can only go with the flow. After all, the current scale of the global economy has made the transformation of the USD system inevitable. Ordinary consumers certainly won't give up their credit cards, but the collaboration model between Visa and banks will inevitably innovate, as it can directly reconstruct the entire clearing system based on stablecoins.
Observation on the Evolution of the Cryptocurrency Ecosystem: From Value Storage to Meme Economy
Sam: Will traditional financial institutions adopt an open transformation or a covert infiltration model for crypto technology?
Anatoly: The key lies in functional realization. If banks only allow holding Bitcoin but do not support actual usage, the situation will become delicate. Once this model scales, Bitcoin may evolve into digital gold. Although from a (securities analysis) perspective, neither Bitcoin nor gold can be valued using cash flow discount models.
The essential motivation for people to hold them is fear, just like my parents fleeing the disintegrating Soviet Union with gold. Today, Bitcoin plays the same role, which may be the only reasonable explanation. If Bitcoin one day becomes a mainstream hedging tool on par with gold, then regardless of how you define success, the entire crypto market has succeeded.
Sam: When traditional valuation models generally fail, what is the essential difference between crypto assets and stocks/gold? Isn't gold also a millennial meme?
Anatoly: The difference lies in scale. When the meme of gold reaches the trillion-dollar level and forms a global consensus, it reflects a certain essence of human civilization; we have always been storing and transferring value using abstract concepts.
Sam: Can you compare the different value systems in the crypto field?
Anatoly: The abstract nature of Bitcoin makes it difficult to value using engineering thinking, but Solana's positioning is very clear: it is essentially an efficient information transmission channel. When users conduct token transactions, they are essentially broadcasting valuable information. Since the system only executes the first matched transactions, it naturally forms an incentive mechanism for paying priority fees. The greater the transaction volume processed by the channel, the higher the generated revenue. Whether the transmission is Bitcoin or USDC is not important; the system only processes data flow.
We are fortunate to live in an increasingly prosperous world. As people have more disposable income, they will naturally invest in various interesting things. For example, meme coins, as someone finds it amusing to issue a 'Bowdoin' coin mocking Biden.
Rosa: Are all meme coins based on Solana?
Anatoly: Currently, the vast majority are. While there are a few with the highest market cap on Ethereum, Solana generates 20,000 to 50,000 new meme coins daily, peaking at over 100,000.
Sam: Why is the infrastructure construction of the meme coin ecosystem severely lagging?
Anatoly: This is actually a systems engineering challenge; whenever value distribution is involved, there will be loopholes. Just like when selling phones at discounts, numerous virtual numbers pop up to take advantage.
Cryptocurrency Phone Strategy: Platform Rivalry Decoded
Rosa: Why did Solana choose to enter the mobile hardware field?
Anatoly: This stems from my professional background: having worked in the mobile industry for over a decade, I can build a core team. The current internet should be open and free, but it has been confined by companies like Apple with their 'sandbox' model to monetize users. Although value is created, this closed ecosystem is suffocating.
Apple, Google, and Meta are all extracting user value through sandbox mechanisms. Although their products are indeed excellent (for example, I'm currently using Google's free email AI), crypto technology can break this monopoly. Because digital assets like NFTs and meme coins have scarcity, platforms cannot charge a 30% cut like they do for game items. After all, these are not infinitely replicable virtual goods.
The scarcity of crypto assets has fundamentally changed the rules. For example, take the crypto punk NFT: there is only one in the world, and it cannot be infinitely replicated like game items. When a user spends $10,000 to purchase it, the Apple Store cannot charge a 20% fee. Users will not accept this, nor can the issuer afford it.
This fundamental conflict reveals the opportunity: developing dedicated devices and app stores for crypto users, charging far lower fees than traditional platforms (e.g., 0.5% instead of 30%), can carve out new paths amid giants' monopolies.
Rosa: Is the business model just to earn transaction fees?
Anatoly: Just like Binance or Metamask, charging tiny fees for massive crypto transactions. Although the rate is less than 1/30 of traditional platforms, the average transaction volume for crypto users is tens of times that of ordinary internet users.
Rosa: To attract talent to build crypto infrastructure, is there a need to adjust the existing incentive system?
Anatoly: The core issue is target user positioning. I cannot determine if the general public needs crypto products. However, the existing crypto user group, which only accounts for 1% of the global population (about 100 million people), has an average revenue per user (ARPU) that is tens of times that of ordinary internet users.
Just as Pump.fun insisted on challenging TikTok after achieving initial success, entrepreneurs are always chasing their ultimate goals.
How stablecoins affect the global currency landscape
Rosa: How will the listing of stablecoins like Circle affect the crypto financial ecosystem?
Anatoly: There is a clear contradiction in the current market perception of stablecoins: it is both overly focused and seriously underestimating their potential. Imagine a scenario where the global circulation of stablecoins reaches $5 trillion, which means the USD has completed a full digital transformation, becoming a daily circulating currency in Europe, Southeast Asia, and even Africa.
Despite lacking official support from the U.S. government and facing strict regulatory pressure, the stablecoin market has surpassed $250 billion, and this trend is expected to continue accelerating.
Rosa: Has the policy stance of global regulators on stablecoins changed?
Anatoly: This year, there has indeed been a shift in regulatory attitudes, but the legislative process still needs 2-4 years to complete. Bitcoin has formed a unique value belief system, and the development trajectory of other crypto applications resembles the early days of email technology, where the final form is still unpredictable.
Sam: How will stablecoins affect the global currency landscape?
Anatoly: The data clearly reveals the current pattern: the development of Euro stablecoins is hindered, and RMB stablecoins mainly rely on policy-driven approaches.
And real market demand remains highly concentrated on USD stablecoins, as even street vendors in Argentina have commonly adopted USDT to hedge against local currency inflation risks. This grassroots-driven dollarization process may further solidify the global dominance of the USD.
Rosa: Does this mean 'local stablecoins' are just a wishful thinking of VCs?
Anatoly: Under the current financial infrastructure framework, USD stablecoins effectively address the pain points of actual payments. Just as cross-border e-commerce commonly adopts USD settlements, the on-chain economy is spontaneously forming a similar USD-dominated settlement zone. Unless faced with mandatory policy intervention, this currency pattern based on network effects will remain stable.
Sam: Is the global penetration of USD stablecoins reshaping a new paradigm of USD hegemony?
Anatoly: From a practical effect standpoint, spontaneous choices at the micro level are more influential. When Argentine merchants autonomously adopt USDT for trade settlements, this grassroots dollarization process is more effective than any policy intervention. If the stablecoin market surpasses $1 trillion in two years, it would mean that 5% of the global USD supply has transformed into on-chain form.
The Dilemma of Public Opinion in the Crypto World
Rosa: Linda has a strong network of media, clients, and industry insiders. I believe her future is still bright. This comes right after Grok's controversy, where Grok made anti-Semitic remarks, but Musk downplayed it. What do you think of this storm?
Anatoly: This is the norm of the internet; there are always people spreading malice. Interestingly, people try to solve such issues using cryptocurrencies, such as developing anti-counterfeit coins. But once AI systems open public input, it is destined that someone will deliberately cross the line. To be honest, Grok's remarks are relatively restrained.
Rosa: In the crisis of information trust, can crypto technology reconstruct a trustworthy verification mechanism?
Anatoly: It is more likely to return to prediction markets (Polymarket), though there is room for manipulation, but under scale effects, a balance will form.
Rosa: What do you think about Sequoia Capital partner Shawn Maguire recently being labeled an 'Islamist' for commenting on the Mandani project?
Anatoly: Although I do not always agree with Shawn's views, and sometimes he seems aggressive, I support the principle of free speech. The internet should accommodate different voices; people can oppose his views but should not deprive him of the right to speak.
Rosa: Why did Shawn Maguire choose controversial remarks over professional means to gain attention?
Anatoly: This phenomenon is fundamentally the same as the internet's information quality dilemma: highly cognitive groups often pursue maximum information absorption and form judgments on everything, while algorithms continue to push content that reinforces existing biases to maintain user stickiness.
For example, if users believe Curry's shooting is inefficient, the system will loop play his missed shots. When individuals are long-term immersed in such information cocoons, cognitive dissonance with reality becomes inevitable.
Rosa: What attitude do crypto punks hold towards the current industry ecosystem? Are they furious or too busy enjoying their gains?
Anatoly: This question is interesting. Those who are truly angry have already left. Just as no one remembers the open internet before Facebook, when idealists withdraw, their voices disappear.
